It has begun, 98 stepside S-10 to get 350.

[BigRob]

I got my swap kit in the mail on the 2nd and furiously tore into it like a boy on Christmas morning. I have been so excited that I can't even sleep at night.

I got the S-10 about 2 weeks ago, it is in really decent condition. I even managed to get the previous owner to pull the 2.2 for me. I cant get my fist between the frame and the ground, so it will have to come up a little. Other than the swap and getting it to sit where I want it, all the work it needs is minor.

What I have done so far is - installed the frame mounts, torn the wiring harness apart for the wires I need, hammered on the firewall (more to do there,) and started reshaping the evaporator housing.

On the agenda for today is - separating the 350 from its th350 tranny, installing new gaskets on the engine to fix oil leaks, attaching the mini starter, and finishing work on the evaporator housing.

I know you guys like pictures, I will do what I can.

[97v8s10]

Any progress?

[brakemaster_43]

sweet man, good luck on the swap. what kinda power you plan on having? and yes we love pics, so take plenty.

[BigRob]

I kind of stalled out for a while after changing the gaskets on the engine. I have the motor loaded up in my truck ready to go to the project.

I have the full swap kit and I have gone through the swap manual a couple times. I do have a couple of questions...

How do I determine how far forward or set back the engine is once I get it in the first time?

Exactly how good of an idea is it for me to attempt to move my steering shaft over in the 98? In the manual, it looks like there is a large area of rubber surrounding the shaft. Mine looks nothing like that. The manual does state that the mod may not need to be done in 88 and newer trucks.

[BigRob]

Oh ya, stock 350 for now 290 hp, 330 tq

Nothing really special, but a lot more fun...

Someday I will be looking for 500 hp supercharged.

[Rinkrat456]

For the motor placement, move it back as far as you possibly can. On the mounts I believe you can move the engine back up to 1-1/4", max out those plates and move the motor all the way back on those plates. Grab a hammer and message the firewall if need be to make more room. The lower the motor, the lower the center of gravity. The farther back the motor is the better your truck will handle with weight being closer to 50/50. Stock trucks come with 57/43 weight split and the V8 will make that closer to 59/41, maybe even 60/40.

Also, have you addressed rear axle strength? What transmission are you bolting up? What gear ratio, tire/rim size are you thinking of using?

[BigRob]

The rear is the stock 7 5/8 rear that comes behind the 2.2, I believe 4.11 gear ratio. I am going to go with a bit wider tire, but not anything sticky until I can afford better looking rims.

My buddy has a well built 4.3 (300 HP) and swapped his rear for the same that I have. He hasn't had any problems in 5 years of beating the hell out of it. He runs the Eagle GT tires 235/75/15 that cops get rid of at 20-30K miles.

For now the truck will just be the stock 350 and turbo 350 trans with my current rear end. I don't want anything to break all the time. I only plan on weekend driving and the occasional stoplight hammering :P

When I get rich, I am going to supercharge it to about 500 horses, get a T-56, 4-link, 9" rear, 3.73 gears, and street legal drag radials. I am looking for a Corvette killer at that point.

[Rinkrat456]

Expect a major change in daily driveability with that Turbo transmission. At 65mph you will be shocked when you see 3300rpm or more just cruising around.

[BigRob]

I am aware of the drivability... but thanks for the reminder.

I intended to go about 45 mph unless I am racing. Its only 10 miles to where the weekly "show" is. There are lots of ricers, so I dont consider it a real show...

My first "future/when I am rich" upgrade is going to be the T-56 so that I can actually consider driving the thing around.

[BigRob]

Well, I got the suspension apart today. Nothing wanted to cooperate... Now I just need to get a spring compressor to get it back together. As soon as the suspension is back together and I can roll it around the motor is going in for the first time.

I have run into an interesting problem, even though its not hard to fix. The fuel lines do not exit the frame through the front crossmember, in fact, there is not even a hole where there should be. It is obvious that I will start at the tank and see where the lines go. I am just curious mostly.

[brakemaster_43]

why do you need a spring compressor? once you take off the the tie rod end, sway bar end link and seperate the spindle and ball joint the spring should come out when you lower the bottom control arm. it may be different on the 98 model but i've never heard that it was.

[BigRob]

I have it apart, the challenge is getting it back together, unless anyone has any good ideas of how to safely put it all back together without one. The springs that were in there were about 5" of drop compared to the standard 2.2 springs. The springs were originally less of a drop, it is clear that they cut the springs down.

[BigRob]

Hey people, I got some pictures up on my Myspace page.

www.myspace.com/excavatorking

Anyone care to teach me how to post them here?

[xtreme2001]

Upload your pics to photobucket.com. Copy and paste the image code in your posts. It is very easy to do without having to resize your pics.

[steve]

The project is coming along nicely. BY the way that is a 1970 Chevelle, the best Chevelle model year in my opinion. The 72 had a pair of head lights, not the quads and it had much lower compression.


Oh yeah Add me.

[Girlwithwheels]

ooohh same truck as mine.. stepside and all.. I can't wait to see pics! :)

[Girlwithwheels]

oh I see the link for pics now.. where did the edit button go? that truck is in need of a scrubin

[BigRob]

Sometime this week I am going to finish the suspension work so I can actually start to get the engine in.

[BigRob]

OK, I got that evil suspension back together enough to roll it around. I did learn one important lesson. Suspension work is easy if you have a lift and aren't unfortunate enough to have to do it on dirt.

Anyway, that means that I can now attempt to shoehorn that 350 in. If I get any free time this weekend, the motor will go in.

[BigRob]

Well, the motor went in easy, but I didn't make enough room for the passenger side header. Oh well. The clearances are a bit tight with my starter and fuel pump to the frame and on the other side the header is REALLY close to the brake lines, so I will have to play with it a bit to get it right. I am really excited about getting it done though.

[Rinkrat456]

That's what is so nice about a V8 swap. It just fits. Good to hear your project is coming along. Did you by chance snap any pictures of the build?

[BigRob]

All I did was sit thew motor down in there, but I will take a couple pictures before I do too much more. Next project is getting the turbo 350 tranny in.

[BigRob]

Well, I tried to use an air powered hammer to make clearance for the passenger side header, but to no avail. I pulled the motor and got rid of 10 years of pent up anger... Needless to say, that damn header has a lot of room to spare now.

I am having an issue with the block mounted fuel pump. I have to push the motor all the way over to the driver's side to get it to clear. That is going to cause a problem between the driver's side header and the inner fender well. Anyone got a good suggestion? I really want to keep the pump on the block.

[BigRob]

Well, it turns out that I wasn't paying attention and the driver's side header is only hitting the brake lines, which can be moved. Clearances are decent where I have the motor now. Good news for me.

I am about to attempt to put in my turbo 350 tranny and if anyone has any good advice for me on how to best attempt this, I AM MORE THAN WILLING TO LISTEN!!!

[Rinkrat456]

I'd put the transmission and motor in together bolted up, with an engine hoist that has the ability to tilt the motor. It's a tight fit but it makes for a lot less hassle under the truck trying to muscle the tranny up there. I have found it easier to unbolt the cab from it's body mounts and simple jack up the firewall on a few 2x4 blocks while putting the engine and trans in together. Basically you're giving your cab a temporary body lift.

[BigRob]

Nice idea! I like it, but I have the whole front clip on and the engine is in. After thinking about it, I was going to get some ramps and use a come along to get the truck up there. I have a plate for a shop jack that will help a lot with the transmission.

I must say that the manual does not help as much with anything after '95. I am slightly disappointed. It does not cover the transmission cross member after '95 and my '98 is a lot different than the earlier cross member they show. I guess I get to "wing it" a bit.

[BigRob]

Well, I seem to have lost my motivation until today. My buddy just got new heads for his motor and I want to get my truck done before he gets his done. I am going to see if my transmission will cooperate this weekend.

[gixxert]

what springs did you end up running? i am trying to find ones for my 92 with the v8 swap but mine is already an extended cab

[BigRob]

All I know is that the springs were 2" shorter and a larger diameter steel. They might have been the ZQ8 performance set, or they might have been aftermarket. I honestly don't know.

*UPDATE*

I just managed to scrape together some money, and I have begun looking for a manual transmission. The truck was a manual and I figure it would be stupid to throw the auto transmission in only to swap it for a manual within a year. I have some feelers out to see what kind of transmissions I can get a hold of locally.

[BigRob]

Sooo...

I did some research and found a 5 speed transmission out of a '98 S-10 with a 4.3. I also ordered my flywheel, clutch, and slave cylinder. I picked it all up today and it is going in tomorrow. Should be fun bench pressing it in there. Wish me luck! I took some pictures of my parts and I should have them posted soon.

[BigRob]

Well I tried... the flywheel was the wrong one, so I get to wait a week for another one. The bolt pattern was too small.

[BigRob]

Well Rink, you called it. I got my clutch on and went to bench press my transmission only to find that the bellhousing didn't have enough vertical room. I slid the motor all the way forward on the mounts and still had no luck. I refuse to pull that damn motor again, so I am going to pull the front clip and jack up the front of the cab. If that doesn't work, I am going to push the damn thing in the 60 foot deep pond at work.

[BigRob]

*UPDATE*

I had to do it the hard way. I pulled the motor, bolted up the trans, and asked it very nicely to go in. It did, but when I tried to move the back of the tranny into position, the balancer on the drive shaft hit the cross member. YAY!!! I notched the damn thing at work and it now fits with a nice amount of clearance.

My current problem is that my mini starter is hitting the frame and I can't move the motor any more to the driver's side. Anyone got any good ideas??? Please help me.

[Rinkrat456]

My current problem is that my mini starter is hitting the frame and I can't move the motor any more to the driver's side. Anyone got any good ideas??? Please help me.Could you push the motor back any more on the mounts? I know you don't want to pull the motor anymore but if you did you could hammer on that part of the frame to dent it in where the starter kisses it.

[BigRob]

Oh this is getting to be really fun. I was under the impression that the mini starter would help me avoid playing with the frame... I am going to fiddle with it and see what happens. If I have to beat it I will. Sorry if it sounds wrong...

[Rinkrat456]

I'd wonder if you got the right starter to be honest. If you've read the S10 V8 swap manual it has a few options for which starter fits, plus there's one for sale on this site's store. Could you raise the motor up a hair to clear?

[BigRob]

It is the mini starter that came with the kit from s10v8.com. That's all I can say other than the motor has to be moved or the frame toyed with to get it in there. Even after removing the recommended amount from the drivers side upper control arm, the header hits the control arm if the motor is not all the way over to the passenger side. I know that's a whole 3/4 of an inch, but it does clear adequately if moved to the passenger side. That is also the reason that I had to take off the block mounted fuel pump. It had no clearance either. Now I have to get an electronic one to go with the fuel cell in the bed.

I know that the truck was in a wreck, the drivers side fender is aftermarket and the bumper mounting horn on the drivers side is bent back about 3 inches. Could that have been a hit hard enough to throw the whole thing out of whack like that? I wouldn't think so, but I don't know about that stuff and I am not afraid to admit it.

[BigRob]

Well, I finally got the starter in. I had to shave 1/8" off a corner of the mounting block for the starter. It is VERY close to touching, but the way the motor will rock will move it away from the frame, so I think it will be ok. The mounting block hit the frame where it kicks toward the center for the bottom rear control arm bushing. It would still hit if I were to move the motor forward or rearward, so I just have to deal with it.

I found a non HEI distributor and got all my parts for it. Tomorrow I am going to be running wires and test fitting the radiator. Maybe I will get something done without it fighting me ALL THE WAY. :angry2: That truck has been getting me really frustrated.

[GenuineFine409]

Wow that sounds frustrating what you've been going through. I tried a swap kit before and it didn't worked for me. I ended up making my own mounts and oil pan and trans crossmember. I race mine and wanted it to be very easy to work on. I use a full size GMPP racing starter and i have a 8 quart flared oil pan and i can get the starter in and out fine. I also modified my upper control arms to clear my headers. I am using hedman 1 3/4 fenderwell exit headers so they hit very easily. the only thing i did with my fire wall( i can't jack the body anymore cause of the roll cage) was i rolled the seam at the firewall back flush against the body to give me access to the bell housing bolts. if you use body working tools you can roll it back and make it look like it came that way from factory. i use an HEI distributor and i have almost no clearence issues. the only problem i have is sometimes its tight getting the cap out from between the carb and the top of the firewall because of the engine being back pretty far.

also, on the starter, i used a standard v8 full size truck starter as well with no problems fitting it. do you have any pics of how its fitting together down there? I send you some of mine but it really won't help considering i made all my own stuff but if you want i can still post some maybe it will give you an idea or two. good luck and have fun.

p.s. its frustrating now, but when its done, its glorious!

[BigRob]

Yes, it will be good to know that I had the balls to try it and the persistence to finish it.

I can do more shaving off my control arms and I can beat the frame to clear the starter, but for now it will work, and it's only going to be in there until I can afford to build 400+ horses. I am not going to destroy anything with 3-4 months of once a week driving.

I am going to take some pictures today, go ahead and post some for me if you don't mind. Also, what year is your truck?

[Rinkrat456]

p.s. its frustrating now, but when its done, its glorious!The first time you turn the key and it starts, it's a feeling better than any other in the world. I've never fathered a child or gotten married or anything like that so maybe there is still a better feeling to be felt, but so far in my 20 years of life starting over a V8 that you just put a ton of work into leaves no better feeling. It puts a smile on your face for the whole day.

[BigRob]

OK, here are the pics, I did manage to get most of the wiring out of the way today.

<a href="http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/excavatorking/?action=view&current=Pics049.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/excavatorking/Pics049.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/excavatorking/?action=view&current=Pics050.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/excavatorking/Pics050.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/excavatorking/?action=view&current=Pics045.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/excavatorking/Pics045.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/excavatorking/?action=view&current=Pics046.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/excavatorking/Pics046.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/excavatorking/?action=view&current=Pics051.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/excavatorking/Pics051.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Looks like I still have more work to get that block on the starter to clear the frame. I also noticed that I am not getting full side to side movement out of my mounts. When one mount is all the way to one side, the other mount is in the middle, so I am only really getting about a half inch of total movement.

[BigRob]

Well, that didn't work! :D Here's the link to the album.

http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/excavatorking/

[steve]

Wow that starter is tight. You sure that wont hit?

[BigRob]

Actually, I am absolutely sure that it will. My first look was from the bottom before I saw it and took that picture. I am going to take it off and take about a half inch off that corner with the bench grinder at work.

[GenuineFine409]

Yes, it will be good to know that I had the balls to try it and the persistence to finish it.

I can do more shaving off my control arms and I can beat the frame to clear the starter, but for now it will work, and it's only going to be in there until I can afford to build 400+ horses. I am not going to destroy anything with 3-4 months of once a week driving.

I am going to take some pictures today, go ahead and post some for me if you don't mind. Also, what year is your truck?


here the link
http://s294.photobucket.com/albums/mm90/barrygraham23/

I need to take some of the frame/starter/mounts area, i had some but not sure hwere i put them. i'll take some of the control arms too cause i had to clearance for headers as well. i'll try to take them tomorrow.

[BigRob]

Wow, how fast is your truck and how much power are you making?

[BigRob]

I got my fuel cell, fuel pump, and regulator in the mail today. Now I just have to attain myself a straight side bed to put it in. I know where one is, but I got a speeding ticket. 82 in a 60 = $230.

[GenuineFine409]

Wow, how fast is your truck and how much power are you making?

I've only been able to get a best of 11.03@122mph. the engine dyno'd 536hp last year. My daily driver is a 2500HD and it's been acting up so I haven't got a chance to take the pics cause i've been busy at that, I will take them after work tomorrow cause I'm off friday and all weekend.

Oh yeah, mine is a 2000, what year is yours?

[BigRob]

Wow. Not too shabby.

Anyone have any idea how fast mine will be with a stock 350, 5 speed, posi with 4:11's, traction bars, and sticky street tires? Fuel cell and battery will be in the bed for traction.

[GenuineFine409]

I'd think you'd hit 13's. I see quite a few s10's with 300hp running very low 14's to low 13's. The auto's with a decent converter usually are low 13's on a 300-325hp engine, with a manual you should be able to get 13's. I went 12.40's with a 4000 stall converter, stock heads, comp 292s cam, holley 750 and victor jr intake.

what carb/intake are you using. are you using the stock cam?

[BigRob]

Stock cam and it currently has a Rochester 4 barrel, but I am going to get a Holley or Edelbrock4 barrel for it. 650 is the right c.f.m. for a stock 350 right?

[GenuineFine409]

If you go with an edelbrock carb, i'd say definetly get a 750cfm. with a holley i'd say 650 would be good for street use. We never use anything smaller than a 750 on a 350 or even a 327 unless its going to be totally street bound and stock. You'd be ok with a 650, i'd opt for the vaccum secondaries because of the manual transmission.

For whatever reason, the edelbrock carbs don't match up with cfm on a holley. I've used 850 and 875cfm edelbrock carbs on 350's already that are making close to 460hp and on the same engine i would use a holley 750 and make a little more power(5-6hp in the upper rpm range).

how are you going to use your truck? daily driver? cruiser?

[BigRob]

It's going to get driven about 20 miles a week unless something happens to my other truck. In that case I will wonder why I ever wanted a v-8 to start with. I basically want something nice and kind of quick for the weekend car show , which is mostly ricers with nothing but exhaust and bling thinking that they have an amazing (fast) vehicle.

The good news is that I will have all the money I put into the truck back in a week. :D

[WedgedS10]

Hey BigRob,
I had a stock V8 with a very mild cam like a step above stock cam. I am not sure the spec but it wasn't anything fancy. I had a 600 or 650 edelbrock and I think it ran awful with the edelbrock. I also had a edelbrock rpm intake. I backed it up with a automatic turbo 350 and this was my daily driver. I had driven to missouri from indiana for a summer job and while I was out there I took it to a small drag strip in Joplin, Missouri. I ran 14.5 at 93 mph with stock tires and the tailgate off. That is the fastest I know that it ever went. The speedometer only registered 85.

[Ryan]

650 cfm is what I would run on a 350. If its pretty stock or even a mild cam. The motor will never use all 650 cfm because the secondarys won't have enought vacuum from the motor to complety open.

[GenuineFine409]

are you using the GM 290HP crate engine?

[BigRob]

It may very well be the cammed truck version, it came out of an 82 C-10. It is definitely a crate motor though.

[GenuineFine409]

GM used a 670 holley to get their 290hp from the crate engine. I uploaded some pics i took today, they aren't great but you can see a little bit of how my engine sits. i wish i could find the other ones i took while the fenders and all were off they were good pictures. i also have some videos up on youtube. i've spent the last 8 years working on race cars and street cars and i did about 10 custom motor swaps were i made the mounts and crossmembers and other custom parts. i do my own engines, transmissions and rears so if you have q's about anything you think maybe i can help you with you can shoot me an email barrygraham23@comcast.net.


photos:
http://s294.photobucket.com/albums/mm90/barrygraham23/

vids:
http://www.youtube.com/Genuinefine409

[BigRob]

Wow. That truck sounds AMAZING. Too bad I am going sleeper!

It appears that your engine sits about an inch higher than mine and about 1/2" more toward the drivers side. If I made my own accessory brackets and motor mounts, I could make it work. What frame mounts are you using? They don't appear to be the 2.8 mounts.

[GenuineFine409]

At one time it was a sleeper. I had two huge mufflers on it that made it very quiet and it ran a best of 11.80 i think when i was till running it on the street.

I have the engine set the way it is to keep the driveline true. The trans, engine, rear and all are straight in line. Do to this i had to make my own frame mounts. I just uploaded 3 pics of how i extended them. I boxed the frame mounts in then for added strength which is not shown in the pictures. I tried using a swap kit with the plates but they were bending.

I did not center the engine however i did reposition it, i used scales to position the engine to a point where the left and right sides have equal weight and also to get the side to side alignment as close as possible witht he trans and rear. I made my own alternater bracket and i use an electric drive water pump. i like the accesssories down low on and engine as possible.

Having the engine up a little bit has also worked out to my advantage with my oil pan. I made my own pan and it holds 8 quarts, i wouldn't have been able to hold that much without having the pan below the front crossmember. it also helped the headers clear the a-arms a little better too.

[BigRob]

Yeah, it seems like I will have to do about what you did. If I raise the motor about an inch and toward the driver's side by about a half inch I should have it. The problem I will have with that is my current accessory brackets. They will hit the underside of the hood. I can make some though.

Is there any rubber in the frame mounts that you made? I can't see any.

[GenuineFine409]

I use solid mounts because of drag racing. I used rubber mounts when it was still running on the street.

[BigRob]

So how bad would the vibration be if I used solid mounts? If the mounts are solid, I can stop worrying about the extra half inch of clearance right?

[BigRob]

Actually scratch that. What would happen if I used polyurethane frame mount inserts? They are stiffer I know, but how much higher would they hold the engine up and keep it from rocking?

I also came up with a DAMN brilliant idea for a rookie... If I raise the back of the trans by an inch or so and readjust my pinion angle with the wedges, how much clearance might I gain between my headers to the control arms, and starter to the frame?

I know I have enough clearance to raise the back of the trans, just not the front by more than about 1/4".

[Rinkrat456]

You could try raising the tranny up a hair. There's actually a kit to do that to correct your driveline angles. Might be worth looking into.

[BigRob]

I had a little spare time today and I decided to do something useful. I jacked the back of the trans up 1" and took off my drivers side motor mount so that I could slide the motor over that extra 1/2" like it needs to. The starter had adequate clearance as well as the passenger side header. The steering shaft has about 5/8" of clearance to the header and the header comes to within 1/4 inch of the upper control arm on the drivers side. That is where my problem still lies.

I am wondering how much I can take off that control arm without weakening it too much. It does appear that it has been ground on a bit before. Can I take a slice out of the vertical part, then beat down the horizontal part and weld them together and retain my strength? I would of course take the control arm off, take the bushing out, and put a piece of steel in there so that I didn't warp the metal too bad.

[BigRob]

Well, I haven't made any real progress lately, although I did get the motor to TDC and put the distributor in.

So far I have had the truck sitting in my yard, and it has been raining quite a bit lately. The truck is slowly sinking into the soft ground. I have gotten permission to take it to work and work on it there after work. I will have it moved by the end of the week and I can work on it with all the right tools and without rolling in the dirt. It is time to get the truck done.

[BigRob]

It feels like I am finally getting somewhere. I moved the truck to the shop last Sunday, got it clean, and in the air. Yesterday after work I pulled the drivers side upper control arm off and today I modified the control arm and slapped it back on. I also took pictures. Here is a link. www.myspace.com/excavatorking

I still have a ways to go. I still have a few things to get done before I can attempt to get rolling. I haven't touched my cooling, my electrical is about half done and I need to swap beds before I address my fuel system. I should start knocking things out pretty quickly because it is right there when I get off work, I have all the tools I need, and I am trying to beat my buddy getting one of our projects rolling.

This weekend I hope to get my header on to check clearance, get my accessory brackets on, pull my fuel tank, and loosen up some bed bolts. I might even get to some wiring.

[BigRob]

Well I have to say that I am really disappointed in that $600 kit I bought. I had to modify my motor mount, the radiator doesn't fit in the hole - not even close, AND the starter turns but won't put out the power! At least with the radiator I have enough room to mount it normally and I will still have room for my condenser. I should have figured that the radiator may not have fit due to the year of my truck.

This truck has been fighting me tooth and nail ALL THE WAY.

Anyways, I have the bed loosened up and I have taken the old fuel system out to make way for the new one. The guy with my bed can't get it to me today, so swapping beds will have to wait a bit. I will be doing a bit of wiring on it today if I can get a mount for my coil.