My V8 Diesel Swap

[PapaG]

Well for a new guy here, I am risking a big flaming but, here goes.

I am going to put a Olds 5.7 Diesel into a 88 s-10 Blazer. (Flame suit on)
I have a good diesel 350 tranny with lockup convertor, but think I will have to have my diesel 200r4 tranny rebuilt and use it. I have 2 late model DX Goodwrench engines with all the factory updates.

Yes these engines had a bad rep. Was it true? A lot of it was, but by the time they worked all the problems, the damage was done. Isn't this just a gas engine converted to a diesel? NO It shares some parts with the Gas 350 and it can be converted to a Gas engines. Bottom end is like the 425-455 olds

I worked at GM dealers when this thing came out and lived through all the ups and downs. I have seen lots of the 5.7 diesel go over 200k miles and more than you think have 400k on them.

My current engine has ARP head studs from the last build. It is coming out of a F250 with that my son wrecked.

Fuel milage can be from the 20 to as much as 40mpg(in a olds 88 w/200r4) 4k LBS + car.

I need to hit 1800 RPM's @ 70 MPH (peak torque is at 16xx) so I may have to fine a 3.08 or 2.73 rear end gearing, and the 200r4 to get it right.

Well enough for now. (Flame suit off )

Richard Green
New Ulm, TX

[steve]

Sounds very interesting. I know nothing about diesel motors so I am going to take your word on everything. Even with the huge torque numbers and a low (numerically) geared rear end will the truck actually perform or will it just tow with the best of that?

[PapaG]

It's not going to be like a powerstroke or cumings. :( But lots of people have pulled boats, travel trailers and such. I have pulled a lot of things with the trucks I have had 5.7 diesel in and even the 5.7 cars. I only want to pull a small 5 x 9 foot trailer for 4 wheelers, mowers, building stuff and such. It will pull anything a stock s10 will.

I was going to build a Luv truck with this combo, but I could not find a good one for a right price.

I am mostly building it for a driver and to see if I can get good mileage out of it. Also it won't be another SBC S10 :D Not that there is anything wrong with that. I just tend to follow a differnt drummer.

Richard

[steve]

Sounds cool... I was not sure if you were trying to make a hot rod truck or what.

[jrock262]

diesel have a better power band than gas engines

can be a hotrod but this will prolly be a work grunt huh

[PapaG]

Once I work out the details, and bugs, it will be turbo time on the rebuilt diesel. :D

Richard

[Dimemaster]

PapaG,

As you said, the early Olds 350 diesels sucked. By the time GM worked the bugs out they had a darn good engine for a daily driver/light work truck. Too bad the engine didn't get a second chance. The good, late model versions are really hard to find, too. I guess not very many were sold.

For your intended use, S10 daily driver/utility trailer, the Olds 350 will be ideal. I think you can expect fuel mileage in the mid-30s, plus out accelerating any normally aspirated 4.3 and most V8s since you've got a handle on proper gearing.

However, the Olds 350 is very wide and I'm thinking you'll have major problems with valve cover clearance issues with the evaporator housing and steering shaft. I'd expect issues with the exhaust manifolds as well as the oil filter location. I don't remember the location of the oil sump, but that could also be an issue.

Since you mention towing and not hauling maybe you could build a mid-engine using the TH425 from the early Toronado. Drop in a wide-ratio gear set and the variable pitch torque convertor from the 60s and your truck will really walk the dog. I'm thinking you can juggle the factory sprockets from different apps on the TH425 primary and get a 2.xx final drive, which would match the 3.xx axle/200R4 in fuel efficiency and been a ton stronger, too. I don't think you'll get any 200R4 to live behind a 350 diesel no matter what you do.

If you want to stick with front engine/rear drive, use a 2.xx rear gear and a 700R4 for the overdrive. Once you turbo that sucker the 200R4 is toast.

[Brian_K]

No flame here. I like the Idea!
I posted a similar train of thought, briefly once, about the diesel S-10 trucks.
(I guess Dimemaster drove a rattletrap 4-banger in South America.)

The general conclusion was that the frame and drivetrain couldn't take the
raw power of a full-on V8 diesel. If I had a shop, I'd try to build one for myself.

No such thing as an overpowerful, overbuilt truck. Grrr.
If you succeed, I want to see pictures! :cool:

[Dimemaster]

The South American 2.2 S10 diesel is slooooooooooow, noisey, and smells bad, but id doesn't burn much fuel.

[mattio]

i have a friend witha a 78 4dr towncar,yes a lincoln town car. he wants to put a powerstroke into it for fuel reasons. i think w/ the 460 it got 12 mpg, maybe. if he really does it ill take pics and post or something... mattio

[PapaG]

Well the Buick GN andGNx use the 200r4. Even some of the drag Grand Nationals. The 200r4 was one of the trannies that came stock on this engine. In fact that where this tranny came from a diesel pontiac (olds engine).

Sump is to the rear. Oil filter ilocation is like a SBC. I'll have to look to see which side.

Stock HP is 120 HP @ 3600 rpm.

Let me find a old post form alt.gm user group.


richard.

[PapaG]

Ok I found it.

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"85 Chevy S-10 Diesel 5.7 Liter T-200R4 trans
turbocharged"

I saw that, blinked, and still saw it! So I e-mailed the guy. Here is his response, and it shows what you can do with a custom fab junkyard parts DIESEL!

I looked at your page but its missing the sound of a 350d running down the road with a free-flow K&N on top of it and duals. Makes for a sweet sound that turns all heads! I did that to my mothers cadillac 5.7 car once when I was a teen but it was a little loud for her liking so we made a hybrid air cleaner using another snorkle and resonator, milage went way up after that and adding real duals. 338,000 or so miles later she still has the black cadillac 5.7 car and its without rust!

The deal on the S-10 diesel truck... its broke and I mean BROKE. I was going neck on with a guy in a late model supercharged Pontiac SSEi and hit second and busted a chunk out of the pinion gear along with twisting up the driveshaft and some unknown parts inside the transmission, **** I ALMOST HAD HIM!!! When the ring came around with the remaining tooth of the pinion and hit the new spot on it the loading busted the carrier and sent the pinion and yoke out of the one side taking the driveshaft with it, a cheap GM 7.5 ring axle. The impact and sudden stop also caused the cab to move forward on its rusted out mounts and I lost steering. Didnt hit anything or get hurt but man what a ride, not fun!
So now Im on the hunt for a 1981-1985 Oldsmobile or Buick of the G body style in a 2 door with a 350 LF9 or whatever gas motor they decided on that day of its build.

Details of the race
85 S-10 aganst a 99 Pontiac SSEi 3.8 supercharged I came off the intersection of 65 and Viking in Bethel full force pulling about 9PSI boost and got him on the holeshot taking to about 3900 RPM in only a few seconds, came to the point of 2nd gear with him at my tail light shifted and all hell broke loose with me changing lanes very quickly. The guy in the pontiac (arrogant SOB) didnt even bother to stop instead made sure he went over the horizon. Short ending is I find the busted piece still jammed in the ring and the side of the carrier busted out leaving the pinion on the ground...

Not going to rebuild the truck instead I want a milage machine I can haul my son and his friends to the never ending games these guys like to get into.

Engine details, I bet your salivating now!
84 Olds 350Dx block stock form
Stock crank ground 0.005"
Stock ricardo chamber pistons to +0.002 compression height by matching up rod lengths from doner motors
Stock heads with the exaust and intake ports unshrouded at the bell and polished throughout. Ports matched to the intake. Areas between the valves were relieved to stop the cracking and the sharp angles around the prechamber entrys rounded. Heads are clamped with an ARP 9/16" custom studkit, basically give me studs in this length and threading. Torque is 100 ft/lb Bottom end is also held with 9/16 studs held at 85 pounds however the thread dig is 7/16" deeper than factory. Injection pump is a RoosaMaster DB-28250 second series pump with 0.250
dia plungers and running at near full stroke. Timing is advanced 2.5 deg over stock and the HPCA is wired to retard during boost to keep from blowing the headgaskets. Gaskets are the Detroit graphoil units set on 200 micro inch finish iron with a small "swirl" around the cyls to keep from punching in the sealing rings, this is done using a sanding disk and #150 paper on a drill contacting the iron for a few seconds with light pressure. The added scratch helps hold the sealing rings.

The Turbo!
A stock Buick TO-4 from an early charged Regal 3.8 not the GNx style its the one that bolted to the intake. I had a friend heliarc a straight flange on the discharge and used a direct bolted on air cleaner to the front with a small internal flange. The exaust side was media blasted using fine steel shot to break any cast flash then blasted with silicon carbide to smooth the interior. Impellers were only scrubbed down with soap and water using a toothbrush. Internals were also stock as it was a rebuild when I got it. Exaust manifold is the later model 307-Y steel TEMS robbed from an 86 olds wagon and I reworked it with mild steel to bring the exit where I wanted it. Basically I cut and inverted the discharge yet kept the lower
inlet from the drivers side intact then ran an extension over to position the turbo out of the way, it sat with the oil discharge centered to the #6 injector and that discharge was moved to the old fuel pump location. Oil is grabbed from the sender location after it was drilled out to 3/16 ID. The intake bonnet was an experiment from the start. I had used the old 3.8 carb cap and did some cut and weld to neck it down so I could use 3" diameter pipe however at around 8 pounds it would blow off leaving me with a mosquito fogger so I went to plastics and the later model Cadillac bonnet robbed from a 90 Deville 4.9 and used Sched-40 PVC pipe to plumb it all in. So far so good it has taken the blasts of heat however maxing out at 15 pounds that isnt a real problem.

The trans was a GNx spec T-200R4 using the later 6-lug converter and inertia ring. I pulled the springs on the 1-2 accm and 3-4 accm to firm the shifts along with pulling some select check balls used to regulate the fluid to the band servo. The converter delay ball was also pulled and this also helps stop that converter chatter when you use the manual lock-up in 2nd gear, they feel and go like a 4-speed like this. I could bark the tires hard in both 2 and 3 with the conv locked up however I think this is what killed that ****tly 3.08 10 bolt excuse of an axle. When I say bark I mean hard bark P235-15 meats on a locked center carrier. Never had any U-joint problems with this. Engine mounts were stock using both ends, the bottom fit into 2 of the stock 2.8 holes on the drop frame in the truck leaving me with only 1 to drill out. I ran a bolt through the center of the rubber pad to control motor lift so the rubber wouldnt break off.


I got around 35 MPG average with my S-10 and drove from Duluth to the
macinaw bridge last fall on a job and used 2 tanks of fuel going up US-2 and down I-75. Starting has never been a problem with one battery however its a marine deep-cycle driving the ***aneese gear reduction starter, I burned up many of the Delco 20MT's and I dont have frame clearance. I know Im forgetting tons of details here but now that you have my email address and I added you to my address book maybe we can butt heads over diesels... something like viking and packers fans. I learned the hard way, never park near Lambeau field with minnesota plates, they will chase you down Oneida Street like scalded pigs!

Have a good one and keep the light smoke rolling

Brandon

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Hope that will get your blood flowing. :eek:
Richard

[Dimemaster]

Sounds like a plan, but this guy shredded his 200R4 and his axle.

300lbs/ft @ 1800rpm is a lot tougher on drivelines than 300lbs/ft @ 3600rpm. With any power transmission system, the faster you turn it, the more power it can hold. I would go with a 700R4 and an 8.5.

Document as you go. Sounds like something I might want to do.

[PapaG]

9" Ford will take of the rearend. I think I can get a tranny built that will hold up.

Guy on olds-diesel.com has a turbo V6 diesel and a turbo V8 diesel, both running 200r4's with out problems. :D

I hope to get my blazer in the next week or two. then the fun will begin.

RIchard

[ZR1BLAZER]

the 200-4r is actually a stronger trans. they came stock in the ss monte and GNX and were capable of handiling over 300ftq. they are smaller with less rotating mass then the 700r4. and everyone knows that if you can spin something lighter-faster it holds up better then bulky and heavy. i like the 700 but all i use is the 200-4r. i have 1 in the blazer from art carr and 2 extra ones in the shed. check out art car for the parts needed to rebuild that thing bullit proof. good luck with the swap.

[Dimemaster]

Hey, PapaG, where does this project now stand?